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what do you know , there is justice..

Last post 07-09-2008 10:16 PM by shift. 215 replies.
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  • 07-01-2008 4:51 PM

    • jcass29
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    what do you know , there is justice..

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    Texas man cleared of shooting suspected burglars

    11 hours ago
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    //

    HOUSTON — Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.

    Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

    Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.

    After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.

    "He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.

    Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

    Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.

    "He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.

    Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.

    "I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

    Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

    Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

    "That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."

    Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.

    A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.

    A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.

    The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

    The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.

    Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."

    In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

    "Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

    "You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

    After the shooting, he redialed 911.

    "I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

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  • 07-01-2008 5:23 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    so, it's ok to kill people committing crimes?

    i'll remember that next time i see someone speeding.

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 5:37 PM In reply to

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    that is a retarded comparison .

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  • 07-01-2008 5:46 PM In reply to

    • Kevmo
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    BostonSR:

    so, it's ok to kill people committing crimes?

    i'll remember that next time i see someone speeding.

    googs

     

    LOL that is a funny comment...

    but the worst comparison i've EVER seen

    ur gonna compare speeding to someone robbing/blurgery that's rediculous...

    u fawking right if i saw someone robbing me or a neighbor that i'll be pulling a gun out... go buy ur shyt 


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  • 07-01-2008 5:46 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    they were unarmed.

    they were burglarizing someone else's house....no, actually they had just finished burglarizing someone else's house and were departing.

    he killed them.

    not even a cop would have shot these men.

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 5:48 PM In reply to

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    BostonSR:

    they were unarmed.

    they were burglarizing someone else's house....no, actually they had just finished burglarizing someone else's house and were departing.

    he killed them.

    not even a cop would have shot these men.

    googs

     

    u trying to tell me if one of ur boys lived next to u.. and u saw them try to take his bike.. u wouldn't do something about it and just watch them steal it? 


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  • 07-01-2008 5:48 PM In reply to

    • kdybread
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    Re: what do you know , there is justice..

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    I watched a report on this case and listened to the tape a few times...he clearly went after them vs. protected himself...the dispatcher even told him a few times to stay in the house and he was like "no"...he left his house to shoot them...that's it...they never posed a threat to him...it was clear he was in the wrong....IMO..he shot one of them in the back I think no where near his house...

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  • 07-01-2008 5:51 PM In reply to

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    kdybread:

    I watched a report on this case and listened to the tape a few times...he clearly went after them vs. protected himself...the dispatcher even told him a few times to stay in the house and he was like "no"...he left his house to shoot them...that's it...they never posed a threat to him...it was clear he was in the wrong....IMO..he shot one of them in the back I think no where near his house...

    that's tru... u got a point... he should've just stayed in the house... i also think though.. there is a SLIGHT bit of race issues here... it was a older white gentleman.. and 2 blk males i believe... in TEXAS ... lol... jee.. i wonder =P

     yo k-bread when we doin' a NB run homie
     


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  • 07-01-2008 5:53 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    he wasn't in fear of his life...he wasn't afraid of anything.

    he was mad.

    you can't kill people because you're mad...only if you're reasonably afraid.  this guy spent a few minutes on the phone telling the operator that he was not in danger, that he wasn't afraid they were going to hurt him, he was safely in his house and on the phone with 911 while these two men were unaware he was doing so...he wasn't in danger, he was just mad at the "injustice" of his neighbor being burglarized.  joe horn is a vigilante who acted inappropriately.

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 5:53 PM In reply to

    Re: what do you know , there is justice..

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    Kevmo:

     

    kdybread:

    I watched a report on this case and listened to the tape a few times...he clearly went after them vs. protected himself...the dispatcher even told him a few times to stay in the house and he was like "no"...he left his house to shoot them...that's it...they never posed a threat to him...it was clear he was in the wrong....IMO..he shot one of them in the back I think no where near his house...

    that's tru... u got a point... he should've just stayed in the house... i also think though.. there is a SLIGHT bit of race issues here... it was a older white gentleman.. and 2 blk males i believe... in TEXAS ... lol... jee.. i wonder =P

     yo k-bread when we doin' a NB run homie
     

     

    no you're stupid. A) they weren't black B) you're adding a little asterisk to a situation that doesn't need one. ("slight race issue") C) why when opposite colors occur in a crime that race HAS to pop up? D) i got pulled over the other day by a asian officer. I don't think he's racist because he pulled me over and gave me a ticket (caucasian male)

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  • 07-01-2008 5:58 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    Kevmo:

    BostonSR:

    they were unarmed.

    they were burglarizing someone else's house....no, actually they had just finished burglarizing someone else's house and were departing.

    he killed them.

    not even a cop would have shot these men.

    googs

     

    u trying to tell me if one of ur boys lived next to u.. and u saw them try to take his bike.. u wouldn't do something about it and just watch them steal it? 

    for sure i'd run out with the gun out.

    unless they jumped me or otherwise put my person in danger...or any other person...shooting wouldn't be justified.  the good thing is that people tend to stop what they are doing and listen to you when you're the man with a gun pointed at them.

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 6:01 PM In reply to

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    ident of the 2 men killed

    They are Miguel Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30.

    Officials records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses. 


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  • 07-01-2008 6:02 PM In reply to

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    BostonSR:

    Kevmo:

    BostonSR:

    they were unarmed.

    they were burglarizing someone else's house....no, actually they had just finished burglarizing someone else's house and were departing.

    he killed them.

    not even a cop would have shot these men.

    googs

     

    u trying to tell me if one of ur boys lived next to u.. and u saw them try to take his bike.. u wouldn't do something about it and just watch them steal it? 

    for sure i'd run out with the gun out.

    unless they jumped me or otherwise put my person in danger...or any other person...shooting wouldn't be justified.  the good thing is that people tend to stop what they are doing and listen to you when you're the man with a gun pointed at them.

    googs

     

    tru tru guess this dude wanted to be a hero 


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  • 07-01-2008 6:06 PM In reply to

    Re: what do you know , there is justice..

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    BostonSR:

    Kevmo:

    BostonSR:

    they were unarmed.

    they were burglarizing someone else's house....no, actually they had just finished burglarizing someone else's house and were departing.

    he killed them.

    not even a cop would have shot these men.

    googs

     

    u trying to tell me if one of ur boys lived next to u.. and u saw them try to take his bike.. u wouldn't do something about it and just watch them steal it? 

    for sure i'd run out with the gun out.

    unless they jumped me or otherwise put my person in danger...or any other person...shooting wouldn't be justified.  the good thing is that people tend to stop what they are doing and listen to you when you're the man with a gun pointed at them.

    googs

    I agree w/ googs on this one...

    He literally said he was going to kill them.  Whether he really intended too or not...only mr horn knows that.  Perhaps when he entered  his yard they made a move in a fashion toward a gun and made him fear for his life...

    regardless, he shouldn't have left his house.  Manslaughter to some degree maybe.

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  • 07-01-2008 6:06 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    incognito:

    Kevmo:

     

    kdybread:

    I watched a report on this case and listened to the tape a few times...he clearly went after them vs. protected himself...the dispatcher even told him a few times to stay in the house and he was like "no"...he left his house to shoot them...that's it...they never posed a threat to him...it was clear he was in the wrong....IMO..he shot one of them in the back I think no where near his house...

    that's tru... u got a point... he should've just stayed in the house... i also think though.. there is a SLIGHT bit of race issues here... it was a older white gentleman.. and 2 blk males i believe... in TEXAS ... lol... jee.. i wonder =P

     yo k-bread when we doin' a NB run homie
     

     

    no you're stupid. A) they weren't black B) you're adding a little asterisk to a situation that doesn't need one. ("slight race issue") C) why when opposite colors occur in a crime that race HAS to pop up? D) i got pulled over the other day by a asian officer. I don't think he's racist because he pulled me over and gave me a ticket (caucasian male)

    second dumb post of the evening.

    they were dark skinned, for sure...i saw the pics.

    race may not have any direct bearing on the case...but it may very well have a direct bearing on the level of outrage that is triggered when some people feel justice isn't served equally.

    the texas legal system is putting its legal stamp of approval on property killings that are OUTSIDE the ownership of the killer. or they are choosing not to scrutinize a shoot that is questionable at best and unjustified at least.  they are behaving this way because their constituents are white and the shooter is white and they are elected officials.

     this is a legal slippery slope because it basically says that without express permission from the property owner, it is ok to interrupt a burglary in progress or recently completed, with deadly force.  so if i see a guy with a hangar trying to break into a car on the street...i could shoot him and not be prosecuted.  even if he turns out to be the son, cousin, brother, friend of the owner of the car trying to help out.  horn had no way of knowing the relationship...he simply assumed there was a crime going on...and used deadly force when there was no deadly force being directed at him or anyone else.

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 6:13 PM In reply to

    • jcass29
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    Re: what do you know , there is justice..

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    Kevmo:

    ident of the 2 men killed

    They are Miguel Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30.

    Officials records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses. 

    and they were illegals , here illegaly , breaking into someones house..
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  • 07-01-2008 6:20 PM In reply to

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    Macon brings up an EXCELLENT point.

    If you look at the timeline of events...the verbalized "decision to shoot" is made ON THE PHONE prior to any confrontation with the perps.

     The legal system should not "work backwards" to justify the shoot.  Once Horn said he was going to kill the guys...they were effectively dead meat and they were dead meat without having confronted mr. horn in person.  that's pretty much the definition of an unjustified killing.  deadly force used to meet no force.

    everything that happened after the "decision to shoot" was just fulfilling the wishes/intent of mr. horn to see these two men pay the ultimate price for trespassing against his neighbor.

    for a white shooter, it's apparent that the judicial system did indeed work backwards to focus attention on the wrongdoing of the perps/decedents.  the fact remains that a "decision to shoot" was made by the shooter WITHOUT sufficient justification.  why else would the trained professional on the 911 call repeatedly advise mr. horn NOT TO ENGAGE?  i personally do not have any feelings that the judicial system would be so accomodating for a black shooter and white perps.  but that's just my opinion.

     googs

     

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 6:22 PM In reply to

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     shouldn't have be stealingggggggggg like u said.. they paid the ultimate price


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  • 07-01-2008 6:22 PM In reply to

    • BostonSR
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    jcass29:

    Kevmo:

    ident of the 2 men killed

    They are Miguel Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30.

    Officials records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses. 

    and they were illegals , here illegaly , breaking into someones house..

     

    thankfully i'm in a job that requires english skills...no chance they could steal mine.

    how about yours?

    googs

    "there's not much showing off to be done from the back of an ambulance"

  • 07-01-2008 6:23 PM In reply to

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    BostonSR:
    because their constituents are white and the shooter is white and they are elected officials.

    lol ridiculous..

    BostonSR:
    horn had no way of knowing the relationship

    im sure he knew his neighbor they probably talk all the time...and the perps break a window to get in and come out with trash bags full of stuff , c'mon..if you confront someone like that and they say hey man this is my uncles house , then you say ok no problem , just sit tight till the police get here..
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  • 07-01-2008 6:24 PM In reply to

    • Mr. Pink
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    Joe Horn is my hero

    Two more perps off the streets and off the books

    Googs take your whinya$$ down to Texas and cry to the first fella you see in cowboy boots about your liberal comparisons

    Let me make it clear- you pull a gun you better be ready to put two down range in the kill zone